Forensic psychiatrist Dr. Julien Gojer returned to the stand on Thursday as the second witness in the defence's case in the Nathaniel Veltman murder trial.
Justice Renee Pomerance began the day with an instruction to the jurors, reminding them of what topics Dr. Gojer is qualified to testify on as an expert. The list included the diagnosis and treatment of mental health disorders like obsessive-compulsive disorder, depression, complex trauma, and autism spectrum disorder, personality disorders and substance abuse disorders. In terms of substance abuse, Gojer is allowed to testify specifically about hallucinogens, such as magic mushrooms, and the effect they have on human behaviour.
Defence Lawyer Christopher Hicks started his questioning of Dr. Gojer by asking about depression.
Gojer said that depression can manifest in people in different ways with different levels of severity.
"Sometimes depression is not clear in children," he said, adding that Veltman could have suffered from depression earlier than has been reported. He said that he believes Veltman has suffered from a persistent depressive disorder.
Gojer also told the jury that it's possible that Veltman suffers from an anxiety disorder. He said that Veltman's relationship with his mother and sudden introduction to public school at the age of 15 may have caused an extreme amount of anxiety which may have led to Veltman's drug use, as a way to self medicate.
"I think from a very young age he's had difficulty with knowing who he is," Gojer said of Veltman. He added that his home-schooling and upbringing led to Veltman searching for an identity as well as a belief that he was "enlightened" and had "special knowledge" that others didn't have. Gojer believed it caused Veltman to have a "distorted, irrational view of the world."
The doctor said he wouldn't classify Veltman as a narcissist but as "egotistical" with an "overvalued view" of his own opinions. He believes that Veltman searched the internet for validation that his view of the world was right.
Hicks asked Gojer if he believed that Veltman had post-traumatic stress disorder. Gojer said "no" but did diagnose Veltman as having "complex trauma."
Gojer told the jury that he doesn't believe that Veltman's trauma diagnosis is the cause of his actions on June 6, 2021, but admits they have a "a very strong association with the alleged offences."
After a morning break, Hicks changed the topic to grief.
Gojer described grief as an "emotion state that people experience after a loss." He added that "superimposing grief" over depression will make those symptoms worse.
Gojer told the jury that he believed that Veltman was struggling intensely with the loss of his great-grandmother on June 4, 2021 which may have prompted him to buy and ingest magic mushrooms to cope.
The defence then moved onto the topic of Autism. Gojer explained that Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) includes multiple mental and developmental disorders, using Asperger's Syndrome as an example. Gojer said that in his opinion Veltman does have ASD. He said that Veltman's lack of social awareness, obsessive compulsive impulses, fixations, screeching noises, and difficulty displaying emotions are all symptoms that led him to that conclusion.
Gojer also confirmed that, in his opinion, Veltman has obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). He told the jury that these disorders would have fed into one another.
Gojer explained that his ASD tendencies would have caused Veltman to research esoteric topics on the internet and that once he was there the OCD would cause him to fixate on those topics for hours on end.
"He starts obsessing and going to a very, very dark place and [he] has a hard time letting it go," Gojer said.
Hicks then asked Gojer if he believed that Veltman had a personality disorder. Dr. Gojer believes that he does and explained that a personality starts developing at a young age and solidifies when one is a adult. He said that Veltman has a border line personality disorder with paranoid personality traits.
The defence then moved on to hallucinogens.
Gojer told the jury that hallucinogens, specifically magic mushrooms, have the capacity to trigger other experiences. "They have the possibility for distortion of perceptions," he said. Gojer referred a pleasurable experience as a "ride" and a bad experience as a "trip."
He went on to explain that a person who is experiencing emotional conflict is more likely to experience a bad trip, he added that some people can even have a "psychotic episode" after consuming magic mushrooms. Though he said Veltman "did not have a psychotic episode at the time of the alleged offence."
Gojer told the jury that the effects of psilocybin (magic mushrooms) generally last 4-6 hours depending on the dosage and the individual.
Hicks asked Gojer whether a pre-existing mental illness can be worsened after taking mushrooms, to which Gojer replied "it could." He then noted that "there's a beneficial effect as much as an adverse."
Hicks then asked about the withdrawal effects of psilocybin. Dr. Gojer responded that "research is very limited." He said that sometimes there can be no effect, sometimes withdrawal effects can last for minutes, for hours, or for days. He added again that the effects depend on the person, their mental wellness, and the dose.
Hicks then told Gojer he wanted to backtrack and talk about trauma again. Following a question about trauma beginning at an early age, both Hicks and Justice Pomerance called for a brief break resulting in the jury being dismissed for the day.
Court will resume at 10 a.m. Friday.
Veltman has admitted in this trial that he deliberately used his pick up truck to hit Talat Afzaal, 74, her son Salman Afzaal, 46, his wife Madiha Salman, 44, and their daughter Yumnah, 15, on June 6, 2021. They were all killed. Salman and Madiha's son, who was nine at the time of the attack, is the only survivor of the collision.
He has pleaded not guilty to four counts of terrorism-motivated first degree murder and one count of terrorism-motivated attempted murder.