The London police detective who interviewed Nathaniel Veltman, hours after the deaths of four members of the Afzaal family, was called to the stand as the Crown's next witness in day five of Veltman's murder trial.
Just after 8:30 p.m. on June 6, 2021, 74-year-old Talat Afzaal, her son Salman Afzaal, 46, his wife Madiha Salman, 44, their 15-year-old daughter Yumna Afzaal, and their then 9-year-old son were hit by a black pickup truck while taking a walk at Hyde Park and South Carriage Roads in London. The boy was the only one who survived.
A timeline presented to the jury so far showed that same black pickup truck, with a severely damaged front end pull into the parking lot of the Cherryhill Village Mall parking lot at 8:45 p.m.
A combination of video and audio established Veltman as the driver. He had a cab driver in the parking lot call the London Police Service (LPS) to report the incident.
On Wednesday and Thursday, video evidence of the night and next morning of Veltman's arrest was shown, though Justice Renee Pomerance explained to the jury a chunk of time was missing from those videos as that was when Veltman was being interviewed by a police detective.
Middlesex County Crown Attorney Fraser Ball called Detective Micah Bourdeau, a 21 year veteran of the LPS, to the stand to start the morning session on Friday.
Bourdeau first came into contact with Veltman at 1:10 a.m., hours after the attack on the Afzaal family, when the detective escorted him from his cell to an interview room where he was photographed by a forensic identification officer, given water and shoes, and his interview began.
A video of the police interview showed Bourdeau offering Veltman food, ensuring that he knew his about his right to counsel, and that he didn't have to speak to police without a lawyer present.
Veltman confirmed that he did know his rights and that he might get a lawyer later. He told police that he wasn't psychotic, he wasn't planning on pleading insanity, and that he was going to be honest in his statement.
"I did so much research before I did what I did," Veltman said in the video that was shown to the jury. "I want the world to know why I did what I did, so I'm going to tell you."
During the interview, Veltman told Bourdeau that an interest in politics and the media coverage in the 2016 Trump election was the beginning of what culminated in the deaths of the Afzaal family.
"From the moment I found out the media was dishonest, it was straight down the rabbit hole," he said.
He added that he started to become a recluse, because he was aware that people who held similar views to his were labelled racists and that every time he came across an article of a white person being killed by a minority, "it would fill me with this anger."
Veltman claimed that other acts of terror, like the Christchurch, New Zealand mass shootings in 2019, inspired him, but it was stories of alleged "Muslim grooming gangs" that made him snap.
After recounting a story he believed came out of the U.K., Veltman said he snapped.
"I decided alright I'm done. I'm going to commit a terrorist attack," he told Bourdeau.
Veltman claimed his number one reason for doing what he did was to send a message to Muslim grooming gangs in the UK that "if you don't back off, more Muslims are going to die."
He said his second reason was revenge for white people, especially young girls, who have suffered violence from Muslim people.
Third, he wanted to be an inspiration for others going forward. He said he used his truck to show that you don't need a gun to kill Muslims.
He also said that he would have rather been peaceful, but that Western governments left him no choice, as he doesn't believe that there's equal justice for white people versus minorities under the law.
"Originally, I was going to go on a rampage," Veltman said before admitting that he felt sick to his stomach after hitting the victims. "It was damaging to my soul, what I did."
He called the actual act of running down the family "very, very distasteful" but at the same time "surprisingly easy."
At this point, Justice Pomerance called a recess. When the jury returned, she reminded them that while some of the views expressed in the statement may be offensive to them, they are expected not to make judgments based on emotion.
"The question isn't if the comments are offensive," she said. "The question is 'how do they relate to the case that's before you?' to decide."
When the interview video resumed, Bourdeau asked Veltman to focus on what he had done on Sunday. He responded that it was like any other day. He got up at 8:45 a.m., showered, and drove to work in Strathroy for a shift that started at 10 a.m.
Veltman did say he felt unwell that day as he was on a comedown after ingesting magic mushrooms very early Saturday morning.
"I'm used to feeling like [expletive] on Sundays," he said.
Bourdeau asked if he was under the influence of anything at the time of the incident, and Veltman responded "no."
Bourdeau asked about his drive home from work. Veltman said it wasn't abnormal. He was "feeling a little down" but when he "saw some Muslims walking on the street," he told himself "I can't do this [anymore]."
He went home and looked up an act of terrorism committed in the U.K. for what he described as "motivation" before he left his apartment at about 7:30 p.m.
Veltman told Bourdeau that he had an air soft gun, knives, a machete, and an axe in his truck, though he didn't plan to use them. He then described pulling his truck over to put on a bulletproof vest and a helmet.
In an exchange between the two, Bourdeau asked "Nate, what did you do?"
"I killed a bunch of people... not a bunch, four."
"How?" the detective asked.
"I crashed into them."
Veltman told Bourdeau he didn't remember exactly where it occurred, because it happened so fast.
When Bourdeau asked who the people were Veltman responded that he didn't know.
"Why did you do it?" Bourdeau asked.
"Because they were Muslim," Veltman replied.
"How did you know they were Muslim?" Bourdeau inquired.
"Because of their clothes," was Veltman's answer.
Bourdeau then asked Veltman if he knew how old the people that he'd killed were. Veltman replied that he didn't know.
"I knew there were children," he said. "I knew it had to be brutal. It had to be a very strong message."
He also told Bordeau, "I'm not intending on doing anything else. I did what I wanted to do."
At one point, Bordeau left the room to get a drink for both himself and Veltman.
Upon his return, Bourdeau asked, as he already had multiple times, if Veltman would like a lawyer. He refused, saying might ask for one later.
As the interview continued, Veltman became less willing to answer questions about the attack, saying he would have to speak to a lawyer before answering or calling the act itself "distasteful."
Bourdeau asked if he had anyone in his life, to which Veltman said he didn't have a girlfriend or kids and that he had "nothing to lose."
After a few more questions about the Afzaal family, Veltman replied that he'd have to speak to a lawyer.
At this point in the video, Bourdeau left the room again. While the detective was out of the room, Veltman can be seen slouching down and putting his head in his hands. This is the first time he's shown any change in demeanor, he appeared quite casual leaning back in his chair with his arms crossed for most of the interview.
Bourdeau returns and asks if Veltman is alright before the interview continues.
The detective questions whether Veltman knew he was near a mosque when he was arrested. He said that he wasn't aware and while he "took time to think about his target" attacking a mosque had never been part of his plan.
"The end goal is to create a new society," Veltman said before the interview ended. Adding that the aim is for white people to have control of their lands, free of big corporations, and corrupt governments.
Soon after, Veltman was taken to a cell to get some sleep, before he and Bourdeau parted ways the detective reminded him again that he could ask for a lawyer at any time.
Bourdeau interviewed Veltman a second time, just before 10 a.m. on the Monday after the attack.
The video of the second interview showed Veltman acting differently than he had earlier.
When asked, he said he had slept a little bit but was "really confused" and trying to collect himself. He appeared deflated as if all the adrenaline and bravado from earlier in the morning had drained away.
Bourdeau asked if he wanted to speak to a lawyer, but he replied that he wasn't ready to speak to a lawyer yet.
Bourdeau asked several questions about Veltman's truck, whether he'd had it long and if there had been any previous damage to it. Veltman answered "no."
The detective then asked about Veltman's shirt, which was a white t-shirt with a black cross spray painted on both the front and the back. Veltman said that "it was a joke" about crusaders, but wouldn't comment further.
Veltman was then asked about his behaviour when he was arrested. Bourdeau asked if remembered flashing an "OK" symbol several times with his cuffed hands. Veltman said he did remember it, but was reluctant to tell him why.
When Bourdeau asked if there was anything in his home or truck that may harm officers when they searched through them, Veltman replied, "no, I promise there's nothing."
Bourdeau then commented on Veltman's change in behaviour. "Do you think the reality of this situation has set in a bit?" he asked.
"Yes, sir," was the answer.
"You killed an entire family, except for one little boy," Bourdeau solemnly said.
"That's an extreme thing," Veltman responded.
The last part of the video the jury saw for the day showed Bourdeau asking why Veltman waited until June when he began planning an attack in March.
"I guess I wanted a few more months of freedom," Veltman said.
After this, Justice Pomerance dismissed the jury for the weekend. Court will resume at 10 a.m. on Monday.
Veltman has pleaded not guilty to four counts of first-degree murder, one count of attempted murder, and related terrorism charges.